Conclusive proof Shaykh al-Mufid did not deny Sayyida Fatima’s miscarriage, part 2


A certain character has made a response to my blog post on conclusive evidence that Shaykh al-Mufid did not deny the miscarriage of Sayyid Fatima, and existence of al-Muhsin ibn Ali.

Let’s look at his arguments! :)

  1. 27 or 28 children of Amir al-Mu’mineen?

But the argument is based on what is mentioned at the beginning of the chapter by Shaykh al-Mufīd:

باب ذكر أولاد أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام وعددهم وأسمائهم ومختصر من أخبارهم فأولاد أمير المؤمنين صلوات الله عليه سبعة وعشرون ولداذكرا وأنثىالحسن والحسين وزينب الكبرى وزينب الصغرى […]

(This is) an account of the children of the Commander of the Faithful, peace be on him, their number and names, and a selection of reports about them. The Commander of the Faithful, peace be on him, had twenty-seven children, male and female: 1. Al-Ḥasan 2. Al-Ḥusayn 3. Zaynab the elder 4. Zaynab the younger […]

Al-Irshād, vol 1, pg 354

Shaykh al-Mufīd mentions that the Imam had 27 children, and proceeds to list out all their names, there is no mention of Muḥsin, till he proceeds to name another group among the Shīʿa which based on their view, the children would be 28. It was already clear from the beginning of the chapter that al-Mufīd does not count himself among those.”

  • My thoughts:

1 ) Perhaps, this individual has not previously read al-Irshad - to know this is a book by Shaykh al-Mufid on history (Ta’rikh).

Being such, Shaykh al-Mufid uses both Sunni and Shi’i sources for his historical reconstructions. His audience will be both Sunnis and Shi’a.

This is why on the previous page 353 - he quotes a Sunni hadith proving Imam Ali is the wasi (trustee / appointed successor to the Prophet):

فصل ومن ذلك ما رواه علي بن مسهر (2)، عن الأعمش، عن موسى بن طريف، عن عبايةوموسى بن أكيل النميري، عن عمران بن ميثم، عنعبايةوموسى الوجيهي (3)، عن المنهال بن عمرو، عن عبد الله بن الحارثوعثمان بن سعيد، عن عبد الله بن بكير، عن حكيم بن جبير قالواشهدنا عليا أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام على المنبر يقول: " أنا عبد الله، وأخير رسول الله، ورثت نبي الرحمة، ونكحت سيدة نساء أهل الجنة،وأنا سيد الوصيين، وآخر أوصياء النبيين، لا يدعي ذلك غيري إلا أصابه الله بسوء ".

2 ) With that being said, Shaykh al-Mufid also believed in a principle known as Ijma’ al-Muslimeen (which differs from Ijma’ al-Shi’a).

Ijma’ referring to a consensus.

Shaykh al-Mufid believed that Allah would make his hujjaj (the Imams) receive speech from Him regarding the future, but this mustn’t be called “wahi” because of the ijma’ of Muslims (Sunni and Shi’a) there is no wahi after the Prophet. 

(Tashih I’tiqadat al-Imamiyyah, page 121)

And we believe that Allah allows his hujjaj (Imams) to hear speech (of angels) regarding what will happen in the future - even after the Prophet.

However, this mustn’t be called wahi because we have presented (12) the ijma’ (consensus) of Muslims that there is no wahi [to anyone] after the Prophet.”

وعندنا أن الله تعالى يسمع الحجج بعد نبيه صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم كلاما يلقيه إليهم (11) في علم ما يكون، لكنه لا يطلق عليه اسم الوحيلما قدمناه (12) من إجماع المسلمين على أنه لا وحي [إلى أحد] (13) بعد

3 ) Although Shaykh al-Mufid believed in the concept of Imams receiving wahi from Allah after the Prophet, he avoided referring to it as “wahi”.


Because the matter of “wahi” is relevant to Muslims as a whole, not just Shi’a.

Sunnis did not agree upon this concept. And the Shi’a believed wahi cannot come to the Imams independently (more to be written on this in the future).

Thus, there is no ijma’ of Muslims allowing the word “wahi” to be used - from Shaykh al-Mufid’s view.

4 ) Similarly, he named his chapter in al-Irshad what the character I quoted posted, about Amir al-Mu’mineen having 27 children - because there is no ijma’ among Muslims of al-Muhsin’s existence (i.e, only Twelvers agree upon it - not Sunnis).


Because Sunnis reject al-Muhsin’s existene and that Sayyida Fatima did not miscarry. Hence, Shaykh al-Mufid wouldn’t make such a statement encompassing an agreed upon truth by Muslims - if there is no agreed evidence in Sunni sources.

As in that case, this statement relevant to all Muslims has no ijma’ and is only agreed upon by Twelvers.

After this, Shaykh al-Mufid mentions that there is a sect among the Shi’a who believe in in the existence of al-Muhsin and the miscarriage.

Among the Shiites, there are those who mention that Fatima, blessings of God be upon her, miscarried after the Prophet, may God’s prayers and peace be upon him and his family, a male son who was named by the Messenger of God, peace be upon him, while he was still a fetus. According to this sect, the children of the Commander of the Faithful, peace be upon him, are twenty-eight, and God knows best.”

As shown in my last post, Shaykh al-Mufid had a special definition of which - using which, he refers to Zaydis in addition the Imamiyyah (Twelvers) as “Shi’a” - despite great contradiction between their beliefs.

There is no ijma’ of Shi’a (Zaydis and Imamiyyah) on Fatima’s miscarriage, because Zaydis deny it.

Rather, there only ijma’ of the Imamiyyah - as I’ve shown in my post. Thus, only one sect of the Shi’a (Twelvers) believed in it - he would be from that group, considering he is Twelver.

  1. Al-Ikhisas

I did not mention this example in my post, so the individual’s point is not relevant as a response to me.

  1. “Consensus of Shi’a”

“It has also been mentioned that Shaykh al-Ṭūsī (d. 460 AH) has claimed a consensus on the matter between the Shi’a this is based on the following statement:

 ومما أنكر عليهضربهم لفاطمة (ع)، وقد رويأنهم ضربوها بالسياط، والمشهور الذي لا خلاف فيه بين الشيعةأن عمر ضرب على بطنهاحتى أسقطت، فسمي السقط (محسنا). والرواية بذلك مشهورة عندهموما أرادوا من إحراق البيت عليها – حين التجأ إليها قوم، وامتنعوا منبيعته.

And what he was criticised for is their beating Fatima (sa) who is reported as having been beaten with whips. What is famous and what is not disputed among the Shīʿas is that ‘Umar (ibn al-Khattab) hit her on her stomach till she miscarried, and the child whom she miscarried was named Muḥsin. Such a narrative is quite famous among them. Add to this their desire to set her house to fire when people sought refuge with her and refused to swear the oath of allegiance to him (to Abu Bakr).

Talkhīṣ al-Shāfī, vol 3, pg 156

The question then arises, is it possible for Shaykh al-Ṭūsī to claim consensus for something his own teacher opposes? The answer is yes and this has happened multiple times and is known by the scholars.

Perhaps the reason for al-Ṭūsī’s wording in this case is the polemical nature of this work, Talkhīṣ al-Shāfī is a summary of al-Shāfī fī al-imāmah by his teacher al-Sharīf al-Murtaḍā (d. 436 AH). al-Murtaḍā had authored this book to refute a book authored by a Muʿtazili scholar. In refuting ones opponents it is not untypical that one may refrain from mentioning that there is a difference of opinion among their sect.”

  • My thoughts:

1 ) I sincerely encourage this individual to research what a “consensus” means. 

There is a difference between a consensus and Shaykh al-Tusi’s words on al-Muhsin.

Does a consensus mean every single person believes in it?

No, it means this is something agreed upon by a majority of leading scholars on a certain subject. It does not mean every single scholar believes in it.

2 ) Shaykh al-Tusi specified that it is “not disputed among the Shīʿas is that ‘Umar (ibn al-Khattab) hit her on her stomach till she miscarried, and the child whom she miscarried was named Muḥsin.”

This is not referring to a mere ijma’ - which has room for dispute, but al-Muhsin’s existence a piece of information not even subject to *any* disputes by the Shi’a. 

3 ) “In refuting ones opponents it is not untypical that one may refrain from mentioning that there is a difference of opinion among their sect.”

Considering Shaykh al-Tusi when describing ijma’ of the Imamiyyah, he uses the phrase “أجمعت العصابة”, as seen below:

(Tahdhib al-Ahkam, vol 1, page 157)

فهذا الحديث شاذ أجمعت العصابة على ترك العمل به

Are you saying Shaykh al-Tusi is being deceptive in his polemical debates?

In saying there is “no dispute among the Shi’a” full stop, instead of there being an ijma’ on the matter (and as mentioned, ijma’ makes room for dispute)

Wouldn’t it be so easy for the opponent to discern and point out the falsehood of Shaykh al-Tusi’s statement of there not being a dispute. Considering Shaykh al-Mufid is in fact al-Tusi’s teacher? 

“Another possibility is that al-Ṭūsī meant that there is an agreement on the general event rather than the specific details he mentions like the miscarriage of Muḥsin.

  • My thoughts:

This is interpolating Shaykh al-Tusi’s words completely out of context. 

His words are clear: 

“What is famous and what is not disputed among the Shīʿas is that ‘Umar (ibn al-Khattab) hit her on her stomach till she miscarried, and the child whom she miscarried was named Muḥsin.”

He is not referring to a general event, but what is disputed is something very particular - that Umar hit Sayyida Fatima on the stomach until she miscarried, and the miscarried child’s name was al-Muhsin.

Only a deceptive person without hujja can try to imply Shaykh al-Tusi is referring to something other than the miscarriage with those words. 


“The above quoted from Al-Irshād is already one example of a contradiction if the aforementioned attempt at reconciliation is not accepted. But there are numerous other examples where a contradiction is found with his teachers, or even against his own proclamation of consensus.

Shaykh Yusūf al-Baḥrānī (d. 1772 CE) mentions in this regard:

قد كان عندي رسالة لشيخنا الشهيد الثاني (رهقد تصدى فيها بنقل جملة من المسائل التي ناقض الشيخ فيها نفسه بدعوى الإجماع علىالحكم في موضع ثم يدعيه على خلافه في آخر وفيها ما ينيف على سبعين مسألة

I had a treatise written by our shaykh al-Shahīd al-Thānī (rah) in which he addressed a number of issues in which Al-Shaykh [al-Ṭūsī] contradicted himself, claiming consensus on the ruling in one place, then claiming his disagreement in another, and the treatise exceeds more than seventy issues.

al-Ḥadāʾiq al-Nāḍira, vol 5, pg 30”

  • My thoughts:

In Shaykh al-Bahrani’s words, Shaykh al-Tusi was quoting different ijma’s on the same issue. This is because ijma’ for can be done even by for example 10 major scholars on an issue - and th Imam’s words was one of them - then this constitutes as a consensus. 

Al-Shaheed al-Thani in Haqa’iq al-Imaan page 194, quotes Allama al-Hilli in al-Tahdheeb:

Ijma’ is hujja upon is if it contains the words of the Ma’sum (infallible).

Every group - whether it is plentiful or little - and agreed upon something in which the Imam’s words agreed with them. Then their ijma’ is hujja because (of the Imam’s words), not because of ijma in itself

قال العلامة في التهذيبالإجماع إنما هو حجة عندنا لاشتماله على قول المعصوم، وكل جماعة قلت أو كثرت وكان قول الإمام في جملة قولهمفإجماعهم حجة لأجله لا لأجل الإجماع انتهى.

Shaykh al-Tusi recognized for every hukm (religious commandment) was a hukm contradicting it - in our ahadith. Thus, ulama may have had different consensus regarding different ahadith - and Shaykh al-Tusi mentioned them in his books. 

Recognizing these different consensus as an ijma’, as for the Shi’a - only the Imam’s words being a part of this agreement by scholars is enough to rule it a consensus.

However, Shaykh al-Tusi said about Sayyida Fatima’s miscarriage does not constitute an “ijma”, but indisputable fact - as will be seen below.

“One of the most popular examples is Al-Ṭūsī claiming a consensus on the probative force of a solitary report (khabar al-wāḥid) [2] while his teacher al-Sharīf al-Murtaḍā famously rejects the probative force of khabar al-wāḥid. [3]”

  • My thoughts:

Al-Sharif al-Mutada was widely known for his Mu’tazili leanings, even described by many academics as a “Shi’i Mu’tazili”.

The Mu’tazila believed a hadith must be mass transmitted to have probative force (hujjiya). This was also al-Sharif al-Murtada’s view which contradicted the view of the Imamiyyah.

Whereas, Shaykh al-Tusi had the normative view among the Imamiyyah in which a solitary report had probative force - provided it conforms to Qara’in (corroborating evidence such as Quran and sunnah).

Shaykh al-Tusi saying taking upon a solitary report with Qara’in is based on a consensus, something agreed upon by majority of leading Imamiyyah scholars back then.

It absolutely does not mean every single person believes in it.

However, if Shaykh al-Tusi says “there is no dispute among the Shia (i.e, meaning Imamiyyah)” in it - only then will this become an issue because he would be disqualifying his own teacher.

But he never does this, so the point mentioned is moot and inapplicable to Shaykh al-Tusi saying there is no dispute among the Shi’a on miscarriage of Sayyida Fatima and al-Muhsin’s existence.

Wa Allahu A’lam :)